Curse

free4all · Nov 14, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25

I hope this doesn't get lost in the Flurry of posts about the AoE nerf. I believe it adds yet another glitch to AI that will serve to make the game harder for no good reason.

I've noticed some people mentioning that the Droknar's run got harder because they added more worms.

THIS IS NOT THE PROBLEM!

The problem is, the last patch was supposed to "make monsters follow you less".

It did the EXACT OPPOSITE for some monsters. Whether this was intentional or not (and I am strongly leaning towards that it was) I do not know.

The problem is not that there are more worms on the Droknar's run, it is that they DO NOT LEAVE YOU.

They follow you all the way to the second "tunnel", past the first batch of dwarves in the first part of Lornar's to Droknar.

In addition, I've noticed that avicara with 'pending spells' now follow longer distances approximately 5 times as much since this last patch (great job ANET) and they STILL follow all the way to the end of the zone.

A couple of other ancedotes:

Was I was running in the desert with my ranger to go complete the 15 point attribute quest (by myself mind you) . I agro'd a desert worm. Now most of you who have done the 15 point quest may have encountered this worm, he sometimes appears right before you have to walk over the fallen statue. Well I made it past him and he proceeded to fight the ghost that stands there. I had the worm targetted (he doesn't follow after a certain point because the statue is treated like a bridge). Long story short, I completed the 15 point quest and the worm had dropped off my target because of the range. So I start heading back and guess what I see standing there looking all pissed off?

Yep, you guessed it.. the worm was STILL AGRO'D ON ME but STUCK!.

Then last night I was down in uw with a 3 person team (spare me your opinions on soloing please) We were at the last part of the clearing the chamber quest where you have to clear the room where the Terrorweb Dryders are. After dying and getting ressed, I noticed the spawn looked a bit wierd but it was still moving around down there. We proceeded pull to kill a lone Grasping Darkness (aka squid), and the fact that it was alone is important. This squid was also moving away from me when I pulled it.

At any rate we decided that going straight on into the chamber was too risky because of the wierdness of movement in the spawn. We decided to back out, and head to the right side entrance (people familiar with uw know it's the entrance where the last aaxte sits by when clearing them out). On the way to this second entrance to the chamber, all the monsters were clearly off the radar (just want to point that out). Well guess what, as soon as we get to the other entrance, guess what makes a beeline for us, WELL outside of agro range? (I'm talking 2 agro circles worth).. the rest of the squid group that didn't for some reason get pulled when we killed the lone squid!!! Before this patch to fix "making monsters leave you easier" I have NEVER seen anything like that. Note, we were not using AoE spells affected by patch.

Another simple test that anyone can do is to check out the new and improved ice imp agro range in Lornar's. It's easy. Take a bow out there, equip 1 running skill. Now find yourself a nice patch of Imps (make sure they are "relatively" stationary kind so you can see where their point of origin is) Shoot an imp, and turn around , walk out of their freeze if you get it and then watch them return back to their spot. Get it so they are just off your radar screen when they leave and so far that you loose the imp as a target, then turn around. Wow. Imp's that would have normally forgotten about you now remember you EVEN OFF OF RADAR.

This may be an unintended result of the "Flee-Return" code put in for AoE, but then again, how can you explain the worm's and avicara? (Plus I wasn't using Fiery Arrows or anything special AoE affected in my ice Imp example, just a regular bow on a warrior with no marksmenship)

Anyway I just thought I would bring this up since no one else was mentioning.

And before you think "oh Good this really screws the runners" note, I have no problem with either of these things being a Pro runner, if you check out the prices in Beacons, they have gone up to an average of 4k now because of what I have mentioned... so this is all good for me. I just wanted to point it out because it does affect normal PvE for balanced groups and this is not a good thing.

Hope someone fixes it.

Loviatar · Nov 14, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyote

When things stop working as they should, it's generally referred to as 'being broken', not 'evolution'.

NO

what you mean is *WHEN THINGS STOP WORKING JUST THE WAYI THINK THEY SHOULD WORK*

boo-hoo you lost some spells until they make some more adjustments.

they may be weeks getting data and adjusting the same way they did with faction.

i am a pyromancer so i got hit the hardest so dont say i dont feel the pain.

i lost 2 skills which i loved (firestorm,searing heat)

incendary bonds work nicely and i will try meteor in a bit.

it is not broken.

wait until the next fix of AI where the half dozen skeleton rangers follow you around a corner with poison arrows instead of standing there shooting at the wall as you laugh.

Chev of Hardass · Nov 14, 2005, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by free4all

check out the prices in Beacons, they have gone up to an average of 4k now because of what I have mentioned... so this is all good for me.

Interesting...... the source of income for most has droped away and the source of income for others goes up....

I have no problem paying a runner to run me to Droknar's, but if the money leaves the system runners will loose business.... followed with runners leaving the profession..... followed with a complete inability to get run anywhere without a previously known group running you.

I see a collapse coming.

Bugeater · Nov 14, 2005, 08:45 PM // 20:45

We're playing an evolving game. Sometimes you like the changes sometimes you don't. Be a grown-up and either learn to deal with the changes (like many seem to have done) or quit and play something else.
In general people in this community are a little higher standard of player and will adapt without too much fuss. But I was getting tired of hearing everyone in every district crying about the patch when it came out. Someone tell me when it's over so I can turn back on my local channel.

Theos · Nov 14, 2005, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugeater

We're playing an evolving game. Sometimes you like the changes sometimes you don't. Be a grown-up and either learn to deal with the changes (like many seem to have done) or quit and play something else.
In general people in this community are a little higher standard of player and will adapt without too much fuss. But I was getting tired of hearing everyone in every district crying about the patch when it came out. Someone tell me when it's over so I can turn back on my local channel.

The overall whining has calmed down from what I have noticed, ToA has gone back to its old ways and eles are finding groups and easily to boot.

SurlyZombie · Nov 14, 2005, 09:18 PM // 21:18

I kind of like it, because when my N/Me is getting bombed on by melee attacks, I can chase them off with a quick Chaos Storm on top of myself. I don't have to run around like a chicken with my head cut off to try and shake them. On the other hand, I don't like this, because, when I try to use a Chaos Storm on an enemy who is far away from me, they just walk away, then my skill ends up being useless. So, in short, it's a good idea, but it doesn't work all that well.

-SZ

Jetdoc · Nov 14, 2005, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Wow, so many people not willing to 'evolve' with an ever evolving game...

Keep the pain coming Anet! You know who your REAL gamers are...

I absolutely agree. I'm actually thinking that this opens up a ton of possibilities that didn't exist before.

I'm actually contemplating using a W/E for the first time (and no, I'm not a hammer warrior) for the potential "nuker runner" build.

I adapted after the partial nerfing of the -55 monk, and it made me a better player for it. This also is a nice challenge to overcome. If anything, it's keeping the game fresh.

delfin42 · Nov 14, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurlyZombie

I kind of like it, because when my N/Me is getting bombed on by melee attacks, I can chase them off with a quick Chaos Storm on top of myself. I don't have to run around like a chicken with my head cut off to try and shake them. On the other hand, I don't like this, because, when I try to use a Chaos Storm on an enemy who is far away from me, they just walk away, then my skill ends up being useless. So, in short, it's a good idea, but it doesn't work all that well.

On the contrary, it sounds like it works just as it should.

Area-effect spells that cause damage and drain energy tend to make enemies reluctant to stay within their range. The monster moves the same distance in either case when escaping the field, but that five-step retreat is more useful to you at close range (taking it away from you and out of melee range) than at a distance (where it can simply move into a safe unoccupied area). What's not logical about that?

Sax Dakota · Nov 14, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

This is not only to affect solo farming. Its for these other classes that are getting no love in pve. Hopefully now we'll see more balanced parties, instead of the 3 w/mo's, 3 monks, and 2 nukes....

Again they didn't nerf the spells, they made the ai smarter..... AI > aoe spammer......gotta be smarter than the AI now....

Akhilleus · Nov 14, 2005, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

-When you go through Augry Rock the first time, if you play the game through, you will be about level 17 (or less), and in no way ready to farm the entire desert.

actually, if you do every quest and every mission, you should be at least level 13-15 by the time you enter kryta, 17 or so when you enter the maguuma jungle, and past 20 when you enter the desert (with a skill-point level or two under your belt).

and to those of you who think the world is going to blow up and we'll all be sent to an alternate dimension consisting of hellfire and brimstone, just because prices of items will go up, i pray you remember this;
in the time before sorrows (a month or two) furnace a perfect 8 15>50 fellblade was going for JUST OVER 2 million, as were 8 15>50 chaos axes.
8 15>50 longswords and fellblades were in excess of 450k a piece, bows were also substancially higher, and hammers could actually compare with swords and axes in value (ie a perfect hammer in general couldnt be purchased for a mere 100k).
ecto was at the price it is right now; 13k market value (a week or 2 b4 sorrows it dropped to 8-9k), and noone really complained.
then with the release of the invincimonk build and the implimentation os sorrows furnace (and the subsequent MASSIVE increase in drop-rates) and chest farming and yadda yadda, the market was oversaturated, and within a very short timespan many items dropped by as much as 50% of thier pre-sorrows market value.
instead of complaining that anet took away the easyness in which you could solo-farm, be greatful they allowed it to remain possible for so long.
had this patch occured with skipping sorrows furnace and the invincimonk craze, i have a feeling this wouldnt be an issue, because not one of the people here who were unable to farm then would have been granted that ability, and so the patch would have afforded them NO differing state of financial affluence. in short they wouldnt be complaining "OMG I CANT FARM!" because they would have never been able to farm in the first place, b4 the invincimonk build was released it was only the few who possessed it that were able to successfully solo the UW.

Keyote · Nov 14, 2005, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

NO

what you mean is *WHEN THINGS STOP WORKING JUST THE WAYI THINK THEY SHOULD WORK*

boo-hoo you lost some spells until they make some more adjustments.

they may be weeks getting data and adjusting the same way they did with faction.

i am a pyromancer so i got hit the hardest so dont say i dont feel the pain.

i lost 2 skills which i loved (firestorm,searing heat)

incendary bonds work nicely and i will try meteor in a bit.

it is not broken.

wait until the next fix of AI where the half dozen skeleton rangers follow you around a corner with poison arrows instead of standing there shooting at the wall as you laugh.

Um, no. When I said it's broken, I meant broken.

It wasn't supposed to make orion/cyn useless or a liability to a group.

It wasn't supposed to make a number of skills practically useless because they weren't altered to reflect the change in effectiveness.

It wasn't supposed to make mobs act even more stupid than they were before.

The patch had many effects that were apparently unexpected and obviously weren't even worked on to make them ready when it went live. What we have here is a broken patch that needs more patches to fix it.

It's all well thinking this accident is great, but it doesn't change the fact the patch was a total mess and what remains is a slightly better mess that we have to put up with until they decide to do the work that should have been done before it went live. The devs know it went wrong, most of us can see it went wrong...but they do say ignorance is bliss.

GWGuru · Nov 14, 2005, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyote

Um, no. When I said it's broken, I meant broken.

It wasn't supposed to make orion/cyn useless or a liability to a group.

It wasn't supposed to make a number of skills practically useless because they weren't altered to reflect the change in effectiveness.

It wasn't supposed to make mobs act even more stupid than they were before.

The patch had many effects that were apparently unexpected and obviously weren't even worked on to make them ready when it went live. What we have here is a broken patch that needs more patches to fix it.

It's all well thinking this accident is great, but it doesn't change the fact the patch was a total mess and what remains is a slightly better mess that we have to put up with until they decide to do the work that should have been done before it went live. The devs know it went wrong, most of us can see it went wrong...but they do say ignorance is bliss.

I'm with you brotha...eventually the developers will realize their mistake and roll back the patch so I can echo nuke the shit out of everything again...I can't wait to be usefull again it's hard to find a party right now.

meranlliril · Nov 14, 2005, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Wow, so many people not willing to 'evolve' with an ever evolving game...

Wow, i thought this was called devolution

Carnajo · Nov 14, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Lately I see things going a lot better ingame. Fire nukers still nuking away and cause mass damage. Mobs hardly fleeing.

Anyway, one thing that gets to me is all these people thinking that FoW armour costs a gazillion how do they expect us to get it if we dont farm, or solo UW or whatever. Guys, FoW is supposed to be unique, it's supposed to be special. If everyone had it, it wouldn't be so great anymore. In fact, it would be boring.

FoW armour is supposed to be something maybe what, 1% of the gamers have. Even so, nobody *needs* it. It has no special uses or stats, it's just a long term goal.

Feminist Terrorist · Nov 14, 2005, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

UAS: Unlock All Skills. I wasn't in the beta, but apparently there was a weekend when all skills were available to people making PvP-only avatars simply by clicking on a button. This was heaven to the PvP'ers, and the PvP community has been aching for that UAS button ever since, as they find playing PvE to unlock skills & items a chore/drag/boring. It's not as big an issue now as it was just after release, when half the threads on this site were always about UAS, as PvP'ers can now easily unlock the skills they want with faction points.
EoE: Edge of Extinction. Ranger spirit which, when one creature dies, does damage to all creatures of same type. Used in PvP to create cascades (one dies & the damage kills another; the damage from both of these kills another etc etc) called "edge-bombs", started by having members of own team commit suicide.

EDIT: FARMING: solo-killing Aatxe or Smite-Crawlers the underworld/fissure of woe with an invincimonk. Apparently. As farming everywhere else is still easy. Those who claim solo-farming is dead should go to Augury Rock, intl district, and see the professional farming army in full action.

Thank you for the indepth explanation.

I don't spend a lot of time around the forums, so many of the acronyms confuse me. I'd heard of the EoE skill before, but had no idea how the setup worked. That's very interesting.

Keyote · Nov 14, 2005, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnajo

Lately I see things going a lot better ingame. Fire nukers still nuking away and cause mass damage. Mobs hardly fleeing.

I have a problem with nukers. If someone decides to cast an aoe and break agro away from the tanks, they've put monks and every other vulnerable class at risk, which puts the whole group at risk.

Feminist Terrorist · Nov 14, 2005, 11:19 PM // 23:19

I think Anet's in a bad place right now. They've introduced an update that had certain effects on skills. Whether they were unintended or not isn't really the issue for the purposes of this thought train.
*ahem*
New effects on skills, loads of people unhappy and demanding either a change back or to adjust the skills. Well, Anet can't adjust the skills because that would affect the PvP tournament thing that's going on. I don't know how long it will continue, but I expect until at least the end of the year. That leaves Anet with only two options:roll back the update or give us more updates to fix the buggy/broken things. In the meantime, we have to suffer through (now) overpriced skills because they screwed up and didn't test the update thoroughly. Granted, mistakes happen, but this one is just too obvious.

Yamat · Nov 15, 2005, 12:09 AM // 00:09

I can't see them rolling it back, because the mods to AoE make sense from an overall, high level perspective. The only time you might stand in an AoE is if the thing you are fighting is almost dead, and if you trust your healers. Otherwise, you would get out too... and remember, most monster groups don't have a healer with them!!

Chev of Hardass · Nov 15, 2005, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

I can't see them rolling it back, because the mods to AoE make sense from an overall, high level perspective. The only time you might stand in an AoE is if the thing you are fighting is almost dead, and if you trust your healers. Otherwise, you would get out too... and remember, most monster groups don't have a healer with them!!

Neither do most IWAY groups, but they generally stand in Fire Storm and other AoEs

jlwall · Nov 15, 2005, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Ok, so this updade just blows chunks for a couple of reasons! Farming is still somewhat ok, but has become a real pain to do. Not much fun anymore since they nerfed pro bond and now this update. Plus they have made AoE spells useless in pve. Now I know there are folks out there that think that farming is lame and that Anet doesn't care about them. Well, I got some news there for ya...some people enjoy doing just that and we too are paying customers. We spend our time farming for weapons and money because we like to do just that. AoE spells are no longer effective so why even have them in the game? They have destroyed the elemental profession for people who want to run their charater a certain way. If Anet keeps "adjusting" skills...they will "adjust" themselves right into chapter 13. Many people I know were excited about chapter 2 comming out in the first quarter; however, now they are doubtful if they will even buy it. Anet...leave well enough alone!